Monday, April 16, 2012

Various Investing Methods

After the seminar, someone said that maybe what Koon Yew Yin said about investments and what I said about investing do not quite gel with what Glen Arnold had been talking the whole time.
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Well, the seminar was about the gurus of investing, what they did and why they did what they did. Koon Yew Yin shared how he make his investing decisions. They may not be an exact replica of most of the investment methods of the guru but the essence of it remains.


I don't think Mr. Koon or I must follow these methods exactly. We learn from experienced teachers, we take what we think its suitable for ourselves. We may be wrong, so can the gurus. Who is to day Mr. Koon or I may not be able to generate even greater returns than the gurus?


If we were to follow the Fischer or Buffett methods religiously, we might as well just invest in Berkshire Hathaway, why bother learning. Time tested investment methods are tools we can use to our advantage. I do not see Mr. Koon or myself violating much of the principles touted.
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Readers of my blog will know I am more of a value-momentum person. Maybe I should write a book, but I do not intend to be a guru. I just write about what I like. If you want me to follow the Grahams and Fischers to the letter, then read their books or invest in funds that religiously do that.


Mr. Koon and I think that it is a good seminar to get more investors to discuss more about the concepts and investment thinking of gurus. You may choose to take as much of it and apply to your investing decisions, and may need to research a bit more diligently.


Nobody is owing anyone a living here. You want to follow what Mr. Koon and I are buying, fine, you don't want to, fine also. You want to be Malaysia's Warren Buffett, go ahead, its all out there the information and tools you need. Good luck to all.
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29 comments:

Shihong said...

Hi Dali,

Great event! Thanks for highlighting this opportunity for us. Couldn't agree more that investors should only practice a style that is suitable for them. As mentioned by Prof Glen, to practice valuegrowth investing, one of the most crucial factors is temperament and not everyone can do it. I guess one of the most important things to do in investing is to understand oneself and one's own investment temperament.

Andrew said...

Sorry I could not make the event. But I am sure it was a great one.

I am with you that people are all too willing to follow someone if they are really good at what they do, even if there are flaws.

As a long time stockbroker, speculator and investor, I go on record to say that no one method works for everyone, else everyone would be very rich and there will be no more poor people. But then if everyone follows one method, it would ultimately lead to efficiency and all value will disappear and there will be nothing left to buy.

In trading, no one method is king. Mr. Y may be able to trade XYZ method successfully for example but if Mr.A reads it and follows it to the letter, he may not succeed. Thing is the discipline, attitude and psychology kicks in, and no two investors are the same.

People are not aware that although markets and P&L may look the same, they are be different in so many ways. And for one to be a value investor, one would need a lot of patience. Loads of it. I held Panasonic for over eight years and it was trading in a range of RM8 - RM12 for close to 10 years. How's that for patience? No, no one method is suitable for all, let's not kid ourselves. May look good on paper but in practice, I can tell you even I doubt myself at times.

bruno said...

First of all traders and investors attend seminars to get trading and investment ideas.Whether one is a fundamental or technical trader depends on whatever the individual is comfortable with.At the end it will depend on the individual to pull or not to pull the trigger.

On your earlier article,the books I mentioned,Wizards make good reading whether one is a novice or seasoned and experienced trader.They are based on real life experiences of well known successful traders and investors.

In these books these traders recalled their earlier life of ups and downs and the hard knocks they have taken.One of them Jimmy Rogers,ex partner of George Soros have relocated from New York to Singapore.Many of you guys will have known about him as he is a regular guest on CNBC.Happy trading.

Peter Lim said...

If you're conducting the seminar FREE, then it's ok to say "Nobody is owing anyone a living here".

But when people have to pay for the seminar, you owe it to these people. Add in the lodging, transportation, time, and multiply that by 200, and that number becomes pretty substantial.

Imagine an organising event invites a famous priest from another country to give a talk (and charging them) about Christianity. After 200 people or so attended, in between lunch break, the organiser come and "promote" other religion which is totally in contrast with what the speaker says.

One says you must do good to go "Heaven", and the other says , "enjoy now" so that you're in Heaven now!.

Forget about doing good, as there are many ways to go to "Heaven".

walla said...

http://is.gd/MnohIP

Salvatore_Dali said...

peter,

i don't know what is yr angst all about, you feel bad for glen arnold? the 3 of us get on very well and he does not feel slighted in any way because the investing methods are tools, not the bible ...

use them to suit yr style ... r u saying mr. koon's style is bullshit or crap? or my analysis and recommendations are shit as well or in total contrast to the gurus?

thats is such a silly proposition, get over yrself

MSG Admin said...

Yes, it's good seminar. I would rather to say it's good seminar but not great as its not delivered to my expectation, for personally.
Not say method from Koon or others are wrong. But as soon as the tittle is "value growth investing" , we expect something's delivered to us as value growth investing method. This is not a discussion forum as well, we don't expect on "discussing" on investing method. For my feeling is just like, we hear about Ipoh salted chicken are nice.. We would like to learn how to cook it.But when we arrive the place, the chef say yes, u must add salt to make the chicken salty, then u only can achieve salty chicken taste. But suddenly his student say, there is others method , u can add soy source. May b both are correct to achieve their goals, but the problem is expectation. We come here to learn to cook salty chicken, not soy source chicken.

CY Yap said...

Hi Dali,
I think you misunderstood Peter.
I don't think Peter is saying anyone's method/tool is wrong.

His dissatisfaction stems from the fact that the three of you are not using the same method/tool in investing. He had assumed that this talk is something that the organizer, in this case it's you, believe in and practice it as well.

I would be pissed too if I were to pay to hear somebody preaching something and to know that the organizer is not practicing it. Does it mean the organizer do not believe in what the speaker is preaching??

Peter Lim said...

"A restaurant could seek
a given clientele—patrons of fast foods, elegant dining, Oriental food, etc.—and eventually obtain an
appropriate group of devotees.

If the job were expertly done, that clientele, pleased with the service, menu, and price level offered, would return consistently.

But the restaurant could not change its character constantly and end up with a happy and stable clientele. If the business vacillated between
French cuisine and take-out chicken, the result would be a revolving door of confused and dissatisfied customers."

~ Quote from Berkshire Hathaway's Annual Report 1979.

My friends and i (collectively about 10 of us) are those dissatisfied customers.

lai said...

Chill out lar dude.

Ppl are always entitled to their opinion.

You've been around for quite some time. Your credibility speaks for itself.

P/s: I know some place that sell very great kari mee. Drooling now??

bOcy said...

Dali,

Can you comment on the management of the company particularly integrity and their commitment to other shareholders (shareholders excluding the board and those related to them)

And also do you think Buffett's and professor's may not go for 'hold forever' if there is no tax on capital gain on stocks (like in Malaysia)

Finally, suggest to have feedback forms for improvement in future seminars

Salvatore_Dali said...

Peter Lim,

OK point taken. No need to be dissatisfied. Just ignore Mr. Koon's and my picks.

If you want to talk about stock picks in line with the talk, think ... WOULD THE INVESTMENT GURUS BUY THE STOCKS Koon and I talked about???

If you say NO, then OK lor, fergedabout it.

I can give you a few stock tips NOW based on the Graham Fischer Buffett Lynch style of investing here for FREE:

Go and buy and hold:
a) DUTCH LADY
b) KL KEPONG
c) ALLIANCE BANK (AFG)
d) AEON
e) PUBLIC BANK

See, now you get 5 stock tips instead of just one or two ... ignore the bullshit stocks Koon and I were talking about.

Thanks and cheers.

Shihong said...

Hi Dali,

I don't think Peter is concerned about any of the stock picks at all. I think I can relate to what he is trying to say, even though I am not affected by it.

What he is probably "dissatisfied" with is that people paid money to listen to Prof Glen talk about valuegrowth investing, and not "other methods". The fact of what happened was, a fair amount of time was taken up when Mr Koon and you talked about your own investment ideas.

Remember that at the end of the seminar, only one question was allowed from the floor and there was no more time for questions. Also, I noticed that the Prof was rushing through his last 2 sections on value growth investing as well as industry and firm analysis because I did not have time to take down some of the things on the slides. Some of the other participants managed to take photos of the slides, but not everyone has a canggih camera phone, but that is irrelevant.

I am not significantly affected by this, but I do think that it's a point worth raising. It's true that people can ignore what you or Mr Koon said if they don't like it, but the fact is, time was used up, and the person whom people paid to listen to was not given enough time to explain better.

Nothing to argue about. All attendees can give their feedback and the organizer can also choose to incorporate the feedback if they want or not.

Peter Lim said...

Stock Tip again? My... is that the only thing on your mind always?

Come on, if we want stock tips, we wouldn't have wanted to learn in the 1st place! Might as well ask from neigbour, or better yet "broke-r".

Yes, feedback form would be good. What's better, is money back guarantee. :-)

Salvatore_Dali said...

ok peter, i see yr point better now ... i only took up 10 minutes, so my section wasn't that significant..

mr. koon spoke a bit longer, but that is mr. koon ... plus he is the one who invited glen over, and he said specifically his investing methods were mostly mirroring the essence of those ppl Glen talked about.

to be fair, the majority of people also wanted to hear mr. koon speak, about stocks or politics ... just as some are turned off by mr. koon, I am sure a greater majority loved to hear him

maybe some of you who felt that way could also write in to comment

lai said...

This might be the last time u've organized an event???

Gabriel said...

Grow up Peter. You're old enough to feed yourself. You sound like you're still wearing baby diapers.

Gabriel said...

Grow up Peter. You're old enough to feed yourself. You sound like you're still in baby diapers.

Salvatore_Dali said...

lai,

err... obviously you have been to the first and last seminar I have had... I think there are enough ppl who appreciate what I do despite my idiotic rude ways ... I have done 4 seminars all sold out ... whats yr fucking problem..

The Anonymous said...

Hello,
I have been reading this blog for years and never written any comment in this blog or in any blog as this is my first "virgin" comment. Reason: It’s so easy to speak under anonymous or some ID. So to me commenting like this is quite cowardly unless you really put your full name as your ID. Yeah, I do not use my full name here also. So call me coward if you like...that's why I never comment.

I did not attend the seminar and some of you may ask me to shut the F*** up after reading this.

Not planning to address anyone directly here. Also not trying to defend Dali. And no interest to apple polish Dali as I never meet him before and no intention to meet him in future.

1. After scrolling the historical post the seminar cost RM5xx to RM7xx per person. Of course it’s not cheap and it’s not that expensive either. I agree with the statement: "Nobody is owing anyone a living here". This seminar cannot be free as the there's cost for Mr. Glen to speak, cost for the convention centre, cost for lunch...etc. Also cost for both Mr. Koon & Dali. If you feel short changed after attending the seminar and may not suit your taste bud, you can always not go back to the same organizer in future. Why asking for money back? Using layman language I return you money but can you return back the food you ate and whatever knowledge you learnt? If you order a plate of char koay teow and after eating saying it’s not good ask for refund and the hawker gladly refund and ask for the same from you (even if it’s coming out as a mess from you), is that ok?

2. Surely everyone hope return in some of the $$ they spend and in this case hope to learnt some valuable knowledge of investing from this seminar. Come on. By paying RM7xx you expect to learn investing techniques and come out from the convention center feeling you are a better investor? Mr. Glen, Mr. Koon and Dali is standing in front of you folks who paid to share their investment "techniques" so to speak. To me it’s just pay to listen and if suits you, use it. Else chuck it. And there goes your money.

3. What's wrong if Dali does not share the same investment practise as Mr. Glen. It's it totally different practise? Or there's slight similarity? Who to comment this subjective argument? Again everyone is different. Practices will be different also. Unlike 1+1 surely 2.

Aside from the seminar but some regularity I noticed from some readers of this blog.

4. I noticed there's lots of ppl like putting comments on other ppl. It’s like go to your friend's house and do not like his deco and condemn his taste. If you don't like don't go there anymore. Why condemn? If you are financially powerful enough buy over your friend's house, change it and show him your taste. Else just shut your F*** up. It's like reading blogs. Just respect the owner whether you like it or not.

5. MBA or street smart? All my life I only noticed those I knew who got Master in this and that trying to stitch up their pockets and squeeze money out from others. In corporate scenes, Master tends spend for their own leisure and claim from the company (perhaps not all of them, but mostly). When bad decision made, blame the economy, bla bla bla... Those who study too much most likely (not all though) will be very calculative and more afraid of losing, therefore generally did better ($$ wise, since they have stiched pockets) as compare to a lots of so call street smart which were zapped in the line of duty. But out of 1000 street smarts, if there's one were to stand out he/she will be coming up like a boom! Hiring all those MBAs to his corporate. It just that whether you are trying to be exceptional with high chances of failing or join the nice suited MBA crowd.

Today, I am just another busy body commenting from my perspective and not expecting agreement from anyone.

Alright I had enough typing....hope no hard feeling from you folks who are reading...can’t help if you do.

graph cut said...

i attended the valuegrowth seminar last week.

Great to be able to listen and learn from 3 knowledgeable speakers regarding valuegrowth investment philosophy.

The simplest of all is from Mr. Koon.

Meanwhile, Dali's stock tip will be the icing of the cake.
And i believe the Lazy Analyst Guide will be the essence of finding the true value of Malaysia's plantation stocks.

graph cut said...

I attended the seminar last week.

Great to be able to listen and learn from 3 knowledgeable speakers about valuegrowth investing philosophy.

The simplest of all is from Mr. Koon.

Meanwhile, Dali's stock tip will be the icing on the cake. And i believe the Dali's Lazy Analyst Guide will be an interesting method to find the true intrinsic value of Malaysia's plantation stocks.

Cheers....

ckloi said...

It's well nigh impossible to meet the expectations of such a diverse audience. I attended the seminar to learn something and I have. Thanks.
Maybe my expectations are not so high or I am not so clever as Peter and his friends who probably know a lot about investing and hence expect high dividends for their investment of a few hundred bucks.
Mr Koon invited Prof Arnold over,and shouldn't we be gracious enough to spare him some space? Well, I did learn something from Mr Koon. As for Dali, why gripe over a few minutes? If you don't like the tip, just ignore it.One man's meat is another man's poison.
Feedback forms might be a good idea, yes. But money back guarantee? Do you ask for a refund if you are not satisfied with a meal? Do you ask for money back guarantee if you are not satisfied with a fuck? Thankfully I ain't a cheapskate.

bruno said...

Attending seminars is to get and exchange ideas.Never forget what professionals say to novices and beginners.You pay to learn.Pay to learn means not paying to attend seminars,but pay to the next guy who beat you in the game.

To me trading is a game.There are so many technigues to learn.Keep a few tools that you think will work for you,and discard the rest.Fine tune them whenever you have a chance.Keep faith in them through good and bad times.They are your spouses.Hahaha.

And the most important thing,trust your technigues,analysis and yourself.But do not change your positions everytime you tune into the financial channels or read the newspapers.Put a protective stop and let the markets take you out,in case you are wrong.

Most important thing.Be a chicken when the markets are against you.But never be a chicken when the markets are for you.But when your targets are hit,try not to be too greedy or brave.Or else your friends might turn back and bite off your hands.Hahaha.

ronnie said...

Mr Dali. An excellent lecture by Prof Arnold, Mr Koon and you. It is worth every sen and more.

This is by far the best lecture/seminar I have attended over the past couple of years.

CK said...

Anon@1054pm,

Talks some sense except part4!

A blog should not be a monologue. There must be some feedback to counteract the written thought's credibility.

Otherwise, it's just a one way syok-sendiri act.

BTW, I've always subscribed to the idea that the WWW is a free property of the citizen of the world. A blog writer is just a trespasser, who used that RIGHT to get his/her messages through.

This claim - 'It’s like go to your friend's house and do not like his deco and condemn his taste. If you don't like don't go there anymore.' - has been mis-used many a time by bloggers.

Of course, all discourses should be done in a sensible & non-ad hominem manner.

'Just respect the owner whether you like it or not. If you don't like don't go there anymore' - is not the way for a fruitful intellectual stimulating discussion. It might be OK for a friend's house-deco. But using it in the case of blog is stretching that logic too far. It only breeds 'stunned' mindset in a closed cocoon.

BTW, using yr own logic of thought, wasn't yr comment should be classified by yr own rant of if-u-don't-like-it-then-shut-the-f**k-up reasoning? Why put the 2 sense down ;-]?

lai said...

that's not wat i mean lar dude.

dun misunderstand.

Keep up the good work K?

When u want to belanja me Nasi Kandar Yong Suan??

Andrew said...

Argument getting long and longer! :-)

Anyway from what I see, those that attended the seminar, did it on their own free will as is those following Dali in his blog. No one put a gun to your heads and force you into this.

We should appreciate what Dali has done thus far. He's not perfect, no one is. Don't get me wrong. Dali doesn't know me and I don't know Dali from apples but I follow his blog because I believe it is one of the best in its category.

I am sure those that went to the seminar, although not to their expectations, got something out of it, good or bad.

We learn, we move on. That's progress.

NoviceMind_Bff said...

continuation/

anyway, coming back to the event's original intent. personally, the event was organized to share. be it sharing a contact you came to know that so happen is also an author of investment books on the success of others.

given the temperament of mr. market this 'seminar' or talk as i would like to refer to it as, should be organized on a regular basis.

perhaps, the arm chair commentators should take this challenge on by organizing similar talks, as you have succeeded in doing.

that way, mr. market would be educated over time and perhaps slowly but surely transform our local bourse up the credibility chain instead of the influx of warrants and penny stocks that entices mr. market's speculative nature and vulnerability to greed.

commenting on a post event is one thing but initiating an action cements a genuine intent apart from the herd.

its delusional to think that one saturday afternoon will be the decisive factor in enhancing one's knowledge in investing.

there were those who walked out near the tail end or even allowed their respective phones to ring during the 'seminar'.

they may have more pressing appointments or were expecting important calls. probably entailing crucial investment decisions late saturday afternoon as the resources parted for the 'seminar' was negligible to whatever that is primary to them.

it speaks loads about them and 'loudly' i must add and if they were fund managers or investing professionals, i wish their 'clients' best of luck.

we should be asking ourselves what are we really after for parting with whatever resources that enabled us to be there. karma or not.

during the lunch break, had the opportunity to share 3 different tables.

the 3 course lunch, enabled me to gather from mr. market's constant irrelevant mutterings of the long single lunch line queue, the stock tip which most thought was jcy etc. and not 'learning' anything from the speaker as it was merely excerpts from his book. really?

don't know if i ate too much and i don't read any investment books.

am i so out of touch from the blogs sphere or just plain missing the plot? as i for one had an enjoyable saturday afternoon as i came to 'feel' and not 'listen' to the 'seminar'.

the food was good by catering standards. the talk was great, affirming my feelings of mr. market and efforts by the non professional organizer is commendable.

so, whatever the intent others imagined the organizers might have in putting together the talk coupled with the 'stock tips' and giving out free cd and seminar folder, our individual original intent determines the daily choices we make.

don't be detrimental on the genuine efforts of others to share.

we determine if we are going to enjoy our experience or otherwise.

since cost was the underlying issue from the clubbing of amped up comments, my pleasant and enjoyable saturday afternoon can be summed up as follows;

1. ticket - complimentary (provided by partner)

2. books - 5 signed hardcopies & 5 signed paperbacks of yew yin's books = myr750 (great gifts to some political big wigs)

3. cds - 9 copies of various cds = myr270 (great gifts to friends)

4. investment value from 'seminar' experience - priceless.

for all intent and purposes, all these were said off the cuff without much thoughts on the order of content, it's partiallity, if any, nor am i a blogger to establish a presence.

its just thinking aloud from a novice mind who is appreciative and if there is any such similar events in future, you can be certain i would pay for the ticket.